Friday, July 20, 2007

From the archives

In light of current discussions, or at least recent discussions, I believe it would be useful to refer to a much earlier posting by Fr. Kirby. The sanity and reason of this piece demonstrates that among the ACC there are voices far more ready to seek reconciliation than may be seen in some of the comments of late. In this post, our brother has put forth a genuinely Catholic point of view seasoned with the classic Anglican temperment that makes room for right reason. Fr. Kirby's post is a far superior kind of thinking to the rigid apparent Donatism of certain others who, based on a view that is fully debatable and dubious, presume to lay down a claim to jurisdiction as if that alone settles everything. Such a claim presumes trust, even when it has not been earned; it presumes agreement of fact, and therefore willful sin, without any evidentiary basis.

The balance must exist between holding firm to principles and compassion. Furthermore, charity becomes an empty word if we are unwilling to hear each other out, and consider another point of view. Unity, without truth, is evil; this is why God scattered the people at the Tower of Babel. The unity of Christians is based on truth, and is accomplished only as a result of the coming of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost; and we must keep this unity in the bond of peace.

I refer also to an even earlier post- of sorts, older than the whole internet. It is a quotation from a post, a letter, by Saint Paul the Apostle:

" love serve one another. For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another. "

Galatians 5:13-15


poetreader said...

Thank you, Father, for bringing this fine piece of writing back to attention. While I don't agree with Fr. Kirby on all things (as will be manifestly clear on reading my various comments), I thoroughly respect his scholarship and attitude. It is indeed a fitting thing to discuss those matters on which we have disagreements - to discuss them ad nauseum if necessary, but it is not a fitting thing to bite and devour one another. As I wrote in my recent poem:

The beast will destroy with its flaming breath,
and all that confront it are touched by death,
and hearts that were soft will be turned to stone,
and every spirit will perish alone.


Fr. Robert Hart said...

Yes, I rather thought that Albion thought up this whole blog in order to discuss things intelligently. If we pretend that problems don't exist we cannot work for their solution.

Anonymous said...

I need some direction.

As a former REC minister, I am trying to decide what continuing Church to look into transferring to. ACA is what I am thinking. Can anyone give me a head start here? I know they are all not perfect but, you have to rest someplace.....that has Apostolic Orders.

Fr. Robert Hart said...

Nothing is perfect anywhere, including Rome and Constantinople. The Church is full of sinners (like me) no matter where you go. If you want to use my e-mail address (my profile), or just post a new comment, there is one very relevant question. Where do you reside? A second relevant question is, "as a former REC minister" are you thinking of entering ordained ministry as a continuing Anglican (which in any CC should mean at the very least a conditional ordination)?

Anonymous said...

Needing some direction....I would strongly urge you to go with any of the bodies on the right-hand of the Continuum page. If I were really trying to get away from the REC I would not go with the APA though.

Start looking at different groups and especially individual parishes...
Mine is: Pay attention to the links page.

Good luck in finding a home. May God Bless and keep you!
D. Straw

Anonymous said...

No....I would not go with the APA either. But, I am looking at the ACA for now.
Very small Denominations, like the REC, have personality driven 'kingdoms" established, that exist outside of the Bishops. I know of several individuals who function as Bishops but are not Bishops. Someone said on another post that the REC had "Ego" driven issues. I believe to some extent that is true, but there also is an issue of "Sorted-Nepotism" that rears its ugly head in all the issues. I would hope that in time the REC will grow out of that but.....that remains to be seen.
As far as where to go.....I'm not sure. I will continue to pray and seek out Bp Moyer for some advice. If anyone can give me more help by way of background info....I would appreciate it.


ACC Member said...

Dear Concerned:

The REC has according to some reports about 8,000-10,000 members. I believe it is actually much larger than ACA. The REC has two seminaries, as well. It has over 100 years of existence to have developed seminaries, etc.

To All:

I am truly convinced that the way to achieve unity is to stop debating our differences, debating past events such as Deerfield Beech, stop accusing others of Donatism, etc., etc.

The most pressing need of all of the churches who are represented in the group loosely described as the Continuum, is effective Evangelism. The Bishops, Priests, Deacons, the Relgious, and the laity must all learn to embrace a spirit of EVANGELISM. Not the badly misused meaning of evangelism, but the true meaning of spreading the gospel.

I think anyone who feels these arguments over unity are more important than evangelism and winning souls to Christ have badly displaced priorities.

However, if all the churches represented on this Blog were truly evangelical and were committed to wining souls to Christ, the differences that divide us would simply disappear! Unity would happen so quickly if all were on the same page to winning souls to Christ. In fact, noone would be able to stop unity from happening if all our priorities were in line behind evangelism.

Anglo-Catholics, to be faithful catholics, MUST be evangelical.

Brian McKee, nO/C.G.S.

Fr. Robert Hart said...

If anyone can give me more help by way of background info....I would appreciate it.

I am sorry that I don't understand the question. Background info on something specific?

Anonymous said...

Background info on the ACA. But...any other groups you suggest would also be taken into account.
What I have read on this blog regarding the APCK is not encouraging, so, I dont think that would be an option.


Fr. Robert Hart said...

I hope we have not waited too long to answer the above comment. Look at the link to the right under Continuing Anglican Jurisdictions and you will see one for the Traditional Anglican Communion. The ACA is the American branch of that larger jurisdiction.

As for the APCK, it has some fine parishes and clergy in many places. Frankly, the best ones have my deepest sympathy.