Monday, February 08, 2010

Monday morning

We have several new offerings on the current issue of Anglicanorum Coetibus and the related subject of various differences between classic Anglican belief and Roman Catholicism. The gulf between them has yet to be bridged, which is one reason to apply critical thinking to the inappropriate Enthusiasm with which the new Roman Constitution has been promoted. Late last week we posted several such items for you to read and consider.

On the theological end, Indulge Me, by Rev. Canon Charles Nalls, and a re-posting of the first two parts of my Non-Anglican Difficulties (here and here).

On the practical side about the realities of Anglicanorum Coetibus (as opposed to the fantasies that you may read on any one of a hundred blogs), my Clear as Mud from Friday (or The Mission Impossible Dream), and fresh this morning, Fr. Laurence Wells has written an eye-opening piece called Guarantees and Assurances, just below as you scroll down.


Fr. John said...

I was thinking about the discussions on this blog concerning what beliefs former Anglicans will have to give up when they become RC. In regards to the infallibility of the pope and the immaculate conception, Sean Reed has written that his parish has for over 100 years already been in agreement with what is written in the Roman Catechism. This assertion is hard to believe when one rather obvious point of difference between Rome and the TAC/ACA has been openly declared.

Consider this, we in the continuing churches are all in agreement that we currently have valid sacraments. The TAC/ACA asserts this also, don't they? The TAC/ACA recognizes the validity of the sacraments dispensed in the ACC as well as in their own church. I believe, based on personal experience, that this is a true and accurate statement. Yet while TAC/ACA is willing to express this belief, it simultaneously is about to undergo a large scale ab initio confirmation of its clergy. The rationals for this have been explained in excruciatingly parsed language about "partial fullness" and "sufficient but incomplete," "providing certainty," etc. but all the while never, never, repudiating the validity of the sacraments dispensed by the TAC/ACA.

An obvious point of observation:if the Roman Church had the same view about TAC/ACA orders as TAC/ACA, there would be no need for ab initio ordinations. Therefore, they have a different opinion about the validity of those priestly orders, but for reasons of charity and out of respect for the authority of the Holy Father, the TAC/ACA leadership has chosen to put aside their conviction of the validity of their orders and humbly submit to one more ordination.

Once the TAC/ACA is integrated into the Roman Church, and subject to the authority of the Roman Magisterium, it will, as a matter of Church discipline, be required to articulate the Roman view of orders and sacraments in the Continuing Churches still not in communion with Rome. In other words these now former Anglicans, or whatever official name they emerge under, will be obliged to describe the Holy Orders of the ACC, UECNA, and the APCK as "null and utterly void." No more talk about "partial fullness" will be allowed.

Or do the soon to be former Anglicans plan to be advocates for the rest of us with the local Roman bishop and the Vatican? Probably not wise to pick a fight with the Roman hierarchy right away about the validity of Anglican orders,...unless of course you already agree with Rome that those orders are null and utterly void. But if that is true why are you still saying Masses and eating bread and drinking wine?

Fr. Robert Hart said...

Yet while TAC/ACA is willing to express this belief, it simultaneously is about to undergo a large scale ab initio confirmation of its clergy.

Even then, only for those who are not disqualified by what Rome considers to be impediments, and who make it through the lengthy process.

The Shrinking Cleric said...

Great response, Father John.

Normally what happens when people swim the Tiber is they become more Catholic than the Pope.

Look for those in the TAC/ACA to adopt Apostolicae Curiae as a point of theology with which they are in strong, almost rabid, agreement.

They will hold that Anglican orders are, in fact, absolutely null and utterly void. Further, they will hold that people like me, whose orders derive from Rome, are committing an ecclesiastical crime.

Fr. John said...

If true hearts reflect on this contradiction, asserting that all of our orders and sacraments are valid now, but later declaring same null and utterly void, says much about the way this union with Rome is being brought about. It is in the worst way imaginable, intellectual sleight of hand.

"Men of vision often have lousy eyesight."

Fr. John said...

And here's a friendly warning from a friend of mine in the Roman Catholic Church. Welcome to the fray!

Deacon Down Under said...

And where does that leave the orders of the former Roman priest now married Archbishop Hepworth of the TAC?

Anonymous said...

Appreciate the article with links. The google blog format is awful. I think you folks should look for a better format that is easier to read and one that allows multiple articles (partials) on the page without having to scroll for miles.

Keep up the good work.