tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post2276881749609872751..comments2024-03-24T15:19:06.377-04:00Comments on The Continuum: FIRST SUNDAY AFTER CHRISTMASFr. Robert Harthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05892141425033196616noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-73462565101663261942006-12-31T15:40:00.000-05:002006-12-31T15:40:00.000-05:00This Blog form does not work, so simply Google the...This Blog form does not work, so simply Google the words "matthew gross beyond belief elaine pagels", and it should be the third link down.<br /><br />meanwhile I am disappointed with the blogger format for this limitation.Fr. Robert Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05892141425033196616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-83767534099998306592006-12-31T15:36:00.000-05:002006-12-31T15:36:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Fr. Robert Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05892141425033196616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-70492986344469605832006-12-31T15:34:00.000-05:002006-12-31T15:34:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Fr. Robert Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05892141425033196616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-14626600214105008292006-12-31T15:31:00.000-05:002006-12-31T15:31:00.000-05:00About Pagel’s claim to have discovered suppressed ...About Pagel’s claim to have discovered suppressed writings, here are her words from <i>Beyond Belief</i>):<br /> “p.31 When I entered the Harvard doctoral program, I was astonished to hear from the other students that Professors Helmut Koester and George MacRae, who taught the early history of Christianity, had file cabinets filled with 'gospels' and 'apocrypha' written during the first centuries… <br />When my fellow students and I investigated these sources we found that they revealed diversity within the Christian movement that later, 'official' versions of Christian history had suppressed so effectively that only now in the Harvard graduate school, did we hear about them."<br /><br />But, the "suppression" she wites about never occurred, and one did not have to explore file cabinets in Harvard to find these Gnostic works. One needed only to read some of the Fathers of the Church, which makes her ignorance until that time (as a Doctoral student) rather puzzling. <br /><br /><br />First I quote Pagels herself, and then a comment by Matthew Gross (I will prvide the link to the full work by Gross). <br /><br />On page 97 of <i>Beyond Belief</i>, Pagels has simply invented a lie, or fiction if you prefer, which she repeated later in the book (on p. 176):<br />“But in 367 [AD] Athanasius, the zealous bishop of Alexandria––an admirer of Irenaeus––issued an Easter letter in which he demanded that Egyptian monks destroy all writings, except for those he specifically listed as “acceptable,” even “canonical” …But someone––perhaps monks at the monastery of St. Pachomius––gather dozens of the books Athanasius wanted to burn, removed them from the monastery library, sealed them in a heavy, six-foot jar, and intending to hide them, buried them on a nearby hillside near Nag Hammadi.”<br /><br />Gross says it simply: “In this section of the chapter, Pagels continues her claim that Irenaeus and later Athanasius acted in an authoritarian manner, demanding that certain writings be destroyed. Pagels evidence for this is Athanasius’ Easter letter of 367. However, Athanasius letter of AD 367 does not contain any demands that any writings be destroyed. It does not address Egyptian monks at all. It does not name any specific writings other than ones that are acceptable or canonical. At this critical point it appears that Pagelian orthodoxy has slipped into the realm of falsehood, of myth, and of speculation in an attempt to bolster its plausibility.” Gross further writes: "Pagels was forced to mischaracterize the writings of Athanasius and actually resorted at one point to fabricating a quote in order to make her point.”<br /><br />Here is the Link: http://www.thirdmill.org/newfiles/mat_gross/NT.Gross.Matthew_BeyondBeliefbyElainePagels.html<br /><br />Other such critiques are available, and here is a link to one more:<br /><br />http://www.friesian.com/pagels.htm<br /><br />For now this should keep you busy.Fr. Robert Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05892141425033196616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-25288331740857115362006-12-31T15:27:00.000-05:002006-12-31T15:27:00.000-05:00The prince of this world has blinded many to this ...The prince of this world has blinded many to this truth, so well stated by Fr. Hart: "what we need as the miserable offenders that we are, is not a grade at the end, but rather salvation from sin and death."Alice C. Linsleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13069827354696169270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-80351152622606948642006-12-31T14:53:00.000-05:002006-12-31T14:53:00.000-05:00Mr. Stratford:
You are simply wrong, and I am qui...Mr. Stratford:<br /><br />You are simply wrong, and I am quite correct in what I have said. Besides, even the implication that these writings were "hidden" is ridiculous.Fr. Robert Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05892141425033196616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-77149223382599250972006-12-31T12:34:00.000-05:002006-12-31T12:34:00.000-05:00Mr Stratford,
Welcome to The Continuum, which is ...Mr Stratford,<br /><br />Welcome to The Continuum, which is a Christian blog.<br /><br />You post here at my discretion.<br /><br />V R S N S M V - S M Q L I V BAlbion Landhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14423168351697120421noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-24831860353742473932006-12-31T12:06:00.000-05:002006-12-31T12:06:00.000-05:00Her claim was that she discovered these ancient wr...<i>Her claim was that she discovered these ancient writings and that the Church has been hiding them away from the world, due to their fear that the Gnostic writings would be discovered, and prove that there were different versions of Christianity from the start. </i><br /><br />Dr. Pagels has never claimed to have <i>discovered</i> anything. You are no doubt aware of this. So why say what you know is not true?<br /><br /><i>She made up a few fictional items to elaborate on genuine history in the process, such as making up entire passages from her own mind and attributing them to one of the Church fathers.</i><br /><br />While she has been accused of taking some passages out of context to support her thesis, your claim that she "made up a few fictional items" is bearing false witness. Shame on you.<br /><br />And your use of the term scholar in quotes to somehow imply that Dr. Pagels is not one is simply an ad hominem attack - uncharitable and un-Christian.<br /><br />Lies and slander. This is what you preach for the first Sunday after Christmas?Jordan Stratford+https://www.blogger.com/profile/06698721932302252589noreply@blogger.com