tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post2164760956514713060..comments2024-03-24T15:19:06.377-04:00Comments on The Continuum: What Does It Say?Fr. Robert Harthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05892141425033196616noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-41316519675827592532008-04-28T18:32:00.000-04:002008-04-28T18:32:00.000-04:00The Orthodox and Continuing Anglicans believe in t...The Orthodox and Continuing Anglicans believe in the Seven Ecumenical Councils. The RCC believes in something like about 21 Ecumenical Councils (I forget the number), and so does not regard the unanimous agreement of the patriarchs to matter anymore. Considering the history of the seven Ecumenical Councils, the RCC is on very weak footing.Fr. Robert Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05892141425033196616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-85167099272497854562008-04-28T17:26:00.000-04:002008-04-28T17:26:00.000-04:00None implied nor intended. Its a serious question...None implied nor intended. Its a serious question and as I am neither Roman Catholic or Anglican meant in good faith. While I would agree that the implication of the text as a whole is to support the universal jurisdiction of the Pope, the paragraph, in and of itself, doesn't seem troublesome. <BR/><BR/>After all, the reason we haven't had another ecumenical council is not that we can't gather all of the bishops, since that has never happened, its that we can't get The Big Five in the same room together.GK Chestertonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11412564496846777444noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-72808271359103685612008-04-26T03:33:00.000-04:002008-04-26T03:33:00.000-04:00Nicholas,I think you are being a bit disingenuous ...Nicholas,<BR/><BR/>I think you are being a bit disingenuous here. What you say would require that this paragraph say "... by Peter's successor and all the other patriarchs."<BR/><BR/>It does not mention the other patriarchs, because the whole purpose of this section is to state that the RCC believes in the supremacy of the pope.Albion Landhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14423168351697120421noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-69711432614935683082008-04-25T22:07:00.000-04:002008-04-25T22:07:00.000-04:00That being said paragraph 884 was bolded, but is i...That being said paragraph 884 was bolded, but is it really an issue? Isn't that true of *any* of the Patriarchs?<BR/>=============================<BR/>884 "The college of bishops exercises power over the universal Church in a solemn manner in an ecumenical council."405 But "there never is an ecumenical council which is not confirmed or at least recognized as such by Peter's successor."406 (My emphasis)<BR/>=============================<BR/><BR/>The emphasis is misleading, but it isn't wrong is it?GK Chestertonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11412564496846777444noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-6148350572864649382008-04-23T22:04:00.000-04:002008-04-23T22:04:00.000-04:00This is why some of the modern Orthodox perform a ...This is why some of the modern Orthodox perform a terrible disservice by the flat out falsehood that the Great Schism in 1054 was about <I>filioque</I>. It was about the sudden, unexpected claim of the Bishop of Rome to universal jurisdiction, which,in the eyes of all four of his fellow patriarchs, was not a logical conclusion of Primacy as first in honor. <BR/><BR/>By the way, the immediate cause of the controversy (that moved the pope to declare his singular authority) was use of enzymes in Communion bread. I kid you not.Fr. Robert Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05892141425033196616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-7732273507282056152008-04-23T20:09:00.000-04:002008-04-23T20:09:00.000-04:00I think it would be extremely difficult if not imp...I think it would be extremely difficult if not impossible for anyone to read the canons of the first four General Councils of the Church and then agree to the statements about the Roman See made in the CCC. It was precisely this disagreement between the historical fact of what the councils agreed upon and what the Roman Church taught even at that time that caused the Church of England to distance itself from Rome even as the bishops and people of the Eastern Church had done so earlier.<BR/><BR/>However we may label the statements made about the Roman See and its bishop, one thing is only too clear; they do not represent Biblical nor eccumenical Truth such as should be the goal of all who call themselves Christian. The bishops and priests of the ACA/TAC should read Littledale's The Petrine Claims and The Primative Saints and the See of Rome and reconsider just what they have done.Canon Tallishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05182884929479435751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-64940434979109458792008-04-21T15:44:00.000-04:002008-04-21T15:44:00.000-04:00"For the Roman Pontiff, by reason of his office as...<I>"For the Roman Pontiff, by reason of his office as Vicar of Christ, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal power over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise unhindered."</I><BR/><BR/>This is exactly what the majority of patriarchs rejected in 1054. It is not the belief of the Church that we see in the first millennium, and it overrules the colleagiality clearly visible in the concilar process they exercised.<BR/><BR/>It is obvious that the Patriarch of Rome was under the authority of the college of bishops in any decision reached by concilar process, not the other way round. In this matter we reject what is stated in the CCC, and cannot accept this Protestant innovation of the Church of Rome (yes, Protestant-just ask the Orthodox).Fr. Robert Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05892141425033196616noreply@blogger.com