tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post8159973737635411451..comments2024-03-24T15:19:06.377-04:00Comments on The Continuum: The Need for UnityFr. Robert Harthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05892141425033196616noreply@blogger.comBlogger55125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-68324052045811062792010-03-06T23:42:41.528-05:002010-03-06T23:42:41.528-05:00Now this is not to say that Christ is physically p...<i>Now this is not to say that Christ is physically present. What is physically present is Bread, and we recognize it by its accidents that remain: bland, flat, round, whitish, about the size of a quarter, derived from wheat, etc.</i><br /><br />I wanted to go back and correct myself:<br /><br />...What are physically present are the accidents of bread that remain after it becomes the Body of Christ: bland, flat, round,...RC Colanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-21210147376085824482010-03-06T02:47:49.257-05:002010-03-06T02:47:49.257-05:00Cyril likely wouldn't find this a laughing mat...Cyril likely wouldn't find this a laughing matter at all. Instead, he would surely say that the wafers (azymes) we use under are not in fact bread (artos), which is specified for the Eucharist by the plain language of Scripture, the actual institution of our Lord, and the consistent practice of the most early Fathers. I would note that we couldn't be the crux of a bad joke were to follow the Anglican tradition of offering bread, not Roman unleavened wafers.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-50491890948909278562010-03-05T22:09:30.297-05:002010-03-05T22:09:30.297-05:00It is an interesting thought, but I wonder how he ...<i>It is an interesting thought, but I wonder how he might reconcile with with what Cyril of Jerusalem had to say, writing in 315 AD...</i><br /><br />Talk about a tough audience.Fr. Robert Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05892141425033196616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-27193353046801008982010-03-05T15:29:58.997-05:002010-03-05T15:29:58.997-05:00Fr. Hollister wrote:
"...I once heard a lear...Fr. Hollister wrote:<br /><br />"...I once heard a learned priest say, "The greatest act of faith in the Christian religion is not accepting that the bread and wine become the Body and Blood of Our Lord, it is accepting that the little wafer of fish food is really bread!"<br /><br /><br />It is an interesting thought, but I wonder how he might reconcile with with what Cyril of Jerusalem had to say, writing in 315 AD:<br /><br />"What was formerly bread is bread no more...and what was formerly wine is wine no more."<br /><br />Sean W. ReedSean W. Reedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02782194974794706695noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-1924504871071376592010-03-05T01:18:44.994-05:002010-03-05T01:18:44.994-05:00RC Cola wrote: "What is physically present i...RC Cola wrote: "What is physically present is Bread, and we recognize it by its accidents that remain: bland, flat, round, whitish, about the size of a quarter, derived from wheat, etc."<br /><br />I once heard a learned priest say, "The greatest act of faith in the Christian religion is not accepting that the bread and wine become the Body and Blood of Our Lord, it is accepting that the little wafer of fish food is really bread!"<br /><br />John A. Hollister+<br />"ghwagra"John A. Hollisterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01325615323834517909noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-6476284289360290492010-03-04T12:30:59.772-05:002010-03-04T12:30:59.772-05:00...that there is a corporeal presence, hence the &...<i>...that there is a corporeal presence, hence the "Body of Christ" Corpus Christi.</i><br /><br />RC Cola:<br /><br />You have noticed the problem with the word; nonetheless, what is meant is impanation.Fr. Robert Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05892141425033196616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-31264263936910960132010-03-04T12:24:19.308-05:002010-03-04T12:24:19.308-05:00Great link, charles. Thank you for posting it.Great link, charles. Thank you for posting it.Briannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-77241888670333158312010-03-04T04:11:40.334-05:002010-03-04T04:11:40.334-05:00Wait...I can't believe I missed this one about...Wait...I can't believe I missed this one about corporeal presence.<br /><br />I think what is confusing here are the terms. Are we using "corporeal" as a synonym for "physical"? I'm not sure if we can do that.<br /><br />If we believe that the Eucharist is the Body of Christ, we are saying--by definition of Body--that there is a corporeal presence, hence the "Body of Christ" <i>Corpus Christi</i>. One cannot believe in a Body and reject corporeality--a bodiless body? Now someone could counter that they've never heard of a non-physical body, so I'm making an artificial distinction. (Ah! The scholastic stink!)<br /><br />Now this is not to say that Christ is physically present. What is physically present is Bread, and we recognize it by its accidents that remain: bland, flat, round, whitish, about the size of a quarter, derived from wheat, etc.<br /><br />Sadly, I am too much of a newbie to know much about the infamous Black Rubric, and so I cannot rightfully express an opinion about that in particular. I just am not ready to equate corporeality with physicality.<br /><br />I'm running into one of those problems where I need to sit down and read before writing more because I know what I want to say but I'm having a tough time putting it to words. For now, let me say that having a body is of the nature of a human person, and thus even if we don't have the physical body after death, it exists metaphysically because our soul is act, not potential, and since embodiment is of human nature, that body must also be in act, not mere potential. Part of the horror of death is that by removing our body from our soul, we cannot exist according to our nature. Thank God that by rising from the dead, we will be as we were meant to be.<br /><br />Forgive me. I am a sinner by nature. A Thomist by training. And a hack in intellectual and literary ability. If I can work it out what I want to say, I'll send Fr. Hart an MS Word file.<br /><br />Dr. Tighe, you are thinking of <i>Mysterium Fidei</i> from 1965.<br />http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_03091965_mysterium_en.html<br />I think you are referring to Paragraph 46.<br /><br />+Peter, great thread you started. You are right: don't sweat the small stuff. The Enemy loves to divide and conquer, and the small stuff is his favorite tool.<br /><br />Veriword: phronst<br />Onomatopoeia of blowing one's nose.RC Colanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-87907283578484783012010-03-03T16:48:15.579-05:002010-03-03T16:48:15.579-05:00Someone earlier commented Anglicans cannot reject ...Someone earlier commented Anglicans cannot reject everything that comes from Rome. So, which parts of Rome, Sarum, fathers, and other segments of England's history does Prayer Book worship reflect? <br /><br />Here is a quote from Dearmer which provides ready food for thought, "The English Church happens to base herself in a special manner upon history–she appeals to the Scriptures and primitive antiquity for her theology, [* Articles VI., VIII., etc.] to the ancient Fathers for her ritual, [* The Preface Concerning the Service of the Church, Article XXIV., etc.] to Catholic tradition for her ceremonial; [* The Preface Of Ceremonies, Canon 30 (1603), Canon & (1640), etc.] she refers us to the second year of Edward VI for her ornaments, [* The Ornaments Rubric] and to the later middle ages for the arrangement of her chancels. [* "And the chancels shall remain as they have done in times past." (First inserted in 1552.)] [24/25] Her formularies, therefore, cannot be understood without a good deal of historical knowledge. Some people may object to this, and may ask–-Why should they be bound by documents that are two or three hundred years old? But the fact remains that they are so bound, whether they like it or not; and that the whole intention of the Reformers, as shown from end to end of the Prayer Book, Articles, and Canons, was to bind them to principles that are nearer two thousand than two hundred years of age. Nor will they be released from this bondage to historic continuity till the same authority that imposed it shall have removed it,–which will not be for a long time to come. The attempts that have been hitherto made at throwing off this light yoke have not been so conspicuously successful in their results as to encourage us to proceed. Therefore I ask Churchmen to renounce those futile experiments of private judgment, and to throw themselves into the task of realising in its entirety that sound Catholic ideal which the defenders of the English Church preserved for us through the most troublous period of her history. “– Dearmer, Loyalty to the Prayer Book<br /><br />The way out of the ditch we've dug is sticking to our own formularies. The PB is an instrument of revival. If anyone hasn't read 'Loyalty to the Prayer Book', please click here: <br /><a href="http://anglicanhistory.org/dearmer/loyalty1904.html" rel="nofollow">Loyalty to the Prayer Book</a><br /><br />To help answer those questions which the Prayer book seems silent on (without going Roman), look up these books: <br />F.H. Dikinson, Missale and Usum Sarum<br />C.S. Cobb The Rationale of Ceremonial 1541-3. <br /><br />Here's another wonderful quote, found in the Winter 2010 Mandate, by an American episcopal, reminding where our cues come from (not Rome): <br /><br />"Richard Channing Moore (1762-1841), the evangelical bishop of Virginia who brought religious<br />awakening to his diocese prior to the Civil War, wrote to a presbyter under his charge: “As I know from experience, the temptations to aberrate from the Liturgy with which you will be assailed; you must pardon me, in requesting that you resist them all. We have solemnly promised to conform to the discipline and worship of the Church upon all public occasions; and however agreeable a departure from our obligation may be to some,<br />still men of principle will venerate and respect us for our fidelity, and be pleased to see in us a scrupulous regard to our ordination vows.”<br /><br />Isn't this (our vows) what it's all about?-- keeping God's Name Holy so He might be Glorified? I don't see that as trivial or hairsplitting at all.charleshttp://www.anglicanrose.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-81512699782511540202010-03-03T12:07:29.722-05:002010-03-03T12:07:29.722-05:00Bishop Robinson,
My bad for hopping right back in...Bishop Robinson,<br /><br />My bad for hopping right back in with the liturgical squabbles. If our disagreements are largely liturgical, rather than doctrinal (which seems to be the case), then I don't understand why we cannot mostly agree to live and let live within certain boundaries and move forward.<br /><br />I'm quite interested in engaging in evangelism. Part of this activity means going where people are -- college campuses, Fellowship of Christian Athlete programs in secondary schools, and so forth, which is something we seem reluctant to do. Near as I can tell, many of us (and this isn't just Anglicanism, but American church life in general) tend to prefer the "Here we are. We're friendly. Ya'll come." approach to evangelism, which doesn't empower our congregants to seek out people and bring them to church.<br /><br />It's an activity that would require, in my mind, comprehensive participation of both laity and clergy. It seems like a simple point, but at the end of the day, one priest can be at one place at one time. 50 parishioners can be at 50 places at one time. I know phrases like "empowering the laity" are often scary; I would think of it more as commissioning the laity with shared obligations. <br /><br />It would also mean engaging "them" -- those people out there who may be totally unchurched, or are between churches, in a way that would require us to show Christian charity first and foremost, rather than how we're better and how someone else is incorrect.<br /><br />I find the call for evangelism important and encouraging.RSC+https://www.blogger.com/profile/00639369749327986414noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-90430166952860935232010-03-03T11:39:51.124-05:002010-03-03T11:39:51.124-05:00My apologies on the confusion over the placement o...My apologies on the confusion over the placement of the Creed. It was late when I was writing.<br /><br />On another thread one poster had complained that some Continuum priests were reciting the Creed after the sermon. My point was that both the Missals and the Prayer Books direct that the Creed be recited after the Gospel and before the announcement and the sermon. <br /><br />Now that I read back over St. Worms remarks, and (Totally) Anoymous's later post (I assume that it is St. Worm) stating "Our pattern has always been Gospel, Sermon, Creed, then Announcements, at least for the 8 years I've been at this parish." That is yet another order with the announcements being totally separated from the sermon.<br /><br />At any rate, it is a small thing in my estimation, but in every ACC parish I have attended the Prayer Book rubrics are followed in this matter.<br /><br />Fr. John Westcott, thank you for your kind words. I, too, am honored to be in your company.Fr. Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18097549748468739701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-87029364023703825302010-03-03T11:04:48.858-05:002010-03-03T11:04:48.858-05:00Well, here we are at it again. As Bishop Haverland...Well, here we are at it again. As Bishop Haverland wrote the laity were prayer book loyalists while the clegy were "partisan" Anglo-Catholics, although to many of us they were less Anglo-Catholics than Anglo-papists because if there was anything they could do more Romano that would be outside obedience to the rubrics of the classical prayer books and especially of the Ornaments Rubric, that precisely is what they were going to do. And are doing.<br /><br />Father John (whom I believe to be a very good man and a good priest) wrote: "we have the Church that we want," but is it the Church that the laity want or one that they must simply tolerate if they want a faith as close as possible to that of the prayer book.<br /><br />The rubrics of our American prayer book require the use of Ten Commandments at least once a month. And most do, even the folks who use the missal. But what we really need is a canon that requires all the priests and bishops in the Continuum to celebrate at least once a month in complete accordance with the prayer books with the Ornaments of both the Church and the ministers being in complete accordance with the Ornaments Rubric.<br /><br />I find it extremely if painfully amusing that most of the clerics in the Continuum could do a high mass in complete accordance with Fortesque and O'Connell's Ceremonies of the Roman Rite, but have very, very little if any idea of what a complete Anglican service is supposed to look and sound like in terms of what Bishop Cosis and the Council of Nicea alike meant when they said "Let the ancient customs prevail."<br /><br />And here, let me be clear, I absolutely believe Father Hart when he says that he uses the missal in terms which "conform" to the prayer book with the exception of putting Gloria at the beginning and 'tarping.' I also believe him when he says that he sees no harm in it, after all he like another entirely excellent priest does a completely prayer book conforming service before it every Sunday. But the elephant in the room at this moment is what is happening with ACA/TAC. Rome has been made the real authority for so long that they are not taking the next illogical step, submission.<br /><br />Those determined to play papists or papist light with The Book of Common Prayer have not heard and probably will not hear. They are enjoying themselves too much which seems to be their only if not most important consideration. But while I know that they will not do it, I would recommend that they sit themselves down this Lent and read themselves through the sequence of classical prayer books, every word, every page. And then think or pray about what they are doing to their people and the Church.Canon Tallishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05182884929479435751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-47723394434818753892010-03-03T11:04:48.857-05:002010-03-03T11:04:48.857-05:00+ Peter said: "Fr Edward,
My preference woul...+ Peter said: "Fr Edward,<br /><br />My preference would be the proposed book of 1928, but strictly speaking, it should be 1662 as that is the last BCP authorized by both Church and Parliament.<br /><br />I know both the 1662 BCP and the 1928 DBCP give the ACC heartburn thanks to the revised version of the "Black Rubric" which repudiates the notion of a corporal presence. Perhaps the best idea for Great Britain would be for the Continuum to use the 1929 Scottish BCP which has both the Non-Juror Liturgy as revised in 1764, 1912, and 1929, and the "English Communion Office" of 1662, but without the offending rubric."<br /><br />Amen to that! Where is the UECNA in the UK?<br /><br />Fr EdwardAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-17784727479118833962010-03-03T10:56:27.219-05:002010-03-03T10:56:27.219-05:00Bishop Robinson,
Of course majoring in minors is ...Bishop Robinson,<br /><br />Of course majoring in minors is a fruitless task. But is that why the Continuum has had no appreciable growth 40 years? <br /><br />Perhaps the real problem is that we have been minoring in majors--i.e. glossing over the differences between the English Reformation and the Counter-Reformation, the Articles and Trent, and the Book of Common Prayer and the American Missal.<br /><br />In any case, even former Episcopalians digested with (P)ECUSA, and now the TEC, have CONTINUED to staying away from the Continuum in droves. [As an interesting, and perhaps telling, parallel, I would point out that the overwhelming majority of Roman Catholics are staying away from Extraordinary Rite parishes in droves.]Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-2734941378927227012010-03-03T10:44:35.368-05:002010-03-03T10:44:35.368-05:00Mr Tighe makes an excellent point about the idea o...Mr Tighe makes an excellent point about the idea of corporeal presence. While some in the medieval Latin tradition have glossed away in academic journals and treatises any notion of a carnal real presence, that view has not disappeared, and Counter-Reformed liturgies such as the Extraordinary Roman Use (Tridentine Mass) or an 'Anglican' Missal Mass according to Ritual Notes, especially if followed by Benediction and Exposition, are extremely patient of a carnal real presence doctrine. In sum, if the neighboring parish has a different liturgy, it probably has different beliefs too.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-75060183657266762332010-03-03T10:34:34.867-05:002010-03-03T10:34:34.867-05:00RC Cola,
Of course Old Sarum, and other English U...RC Cola,<br /><br />Of course Old Sarum, and other English Usages, are part of the larger Latin Rite of the Western Church, just as Rome has always had its own Usage with the Latin Rite. Which only goes to show (1) that, traditionally, English and Roman usages were never meant to be the same even when England was under the Roman thumb; and (2) that insisting on a rough uniformity between the two now, after the English Reformation an the Counter Reformation have placed a wide theological gulf between the two, is more misguided and artificial than it ever!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-47750307524559478882010-03-03T10:32:44.999-05:002010-03-03T10:32:44.999-05:00The central point that I was trying to make in the...The central point that I was trying to make in the initial posting was that the Continuing Church needs to get away from its obsessive preoccupation with the minutiae. It has, in my opinion, a good understanding of what is its central mission and purpose is, but we also have a sad history of falling out over inessentials. The old Anglican Way was to gentle enforce the basics, allow a generous liberty in non-essentials (such as ceremonial), and leave the rest to God. <br /><br />The basic plea is "please stop sweating the small stuff! Unity is more effective witness to the theological integrity of Anglicanism." In the USA, the Anglican tradition is in danger of greying out because we do not but enough effort into mission and evangelism. The anecdotal evidence is that conservative/traditional churches and parishes are the ones that are doing well as Christianity moves from being mainstream to being counter-cultural. Anglicanism in the USA should be riding that wave quite effectively, but it is not. Why? I suspect the major reason lies in our lack of unity and ineffectiveness in getting the message. As my old bishop used to put it, "being the frozen chosen" is not a good mission strategy."<br /><br />+PDR+ Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15593635840263637835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-63590011026692318682010-03-03T10:27:54.701-05:002010-03-03T10:27:54.701-05:00Sean Reed wrote:
...and certainly not about becom...Sean Reed wrote:<br /><br /><i>...and certainly not about becoming a fully integrated part of The Church He founded, and promised the Gates of Hell will not prevail against.</i><br /><br />If that is how you describe converting to Roman Catholicism, then it is good, as David Gould said, that you go quickly-though I will not say it as in, "that thou doest..." Anyway, we are discussing unity among Continuing Anglicans, and your comment demonstrates why that does not include the TAC anymore.Fr. Robert Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05892141425033196616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-86760711942063635482010-03-03T09:55:40.262-05:002010-03-03T09:55:40.262-05:00Thank you, Fr. Hart. I was going to redirect Fr. ...Thank you, Fr. Hart. I was going to redirect Fr. John to what he wrote.<br /><br />St. Worm<br /><br />P.S., I'm thinking of dropping my alias if it's confusing to the course of conversation. I've just had this alias online since 1996, so it's a hard habit to stop.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-36654143898690002392010-03-03T09:31:30.183-05:002010-03-03T09:31:30.183-05:00"The irony is no one, who knows anything, bel..."The irony is no one, who knows anything, believes in corporal presence." <br /><br />All orthodox Lutherans do; they use the phrase "bodily presence" (see Hermann Sasse's magnum opus *This Is My Body* or those online translations into English of the late Swedish Lutheran scholar Tom Hardt's writings on the Eucharist). So did Pope Paul VI in his 1966 encyclical on the Eucharist, whose name escapes me at the moment.William Tighehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16634494183165592707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-14194853891308247612010-03-03T08:31:02.452-05:002010-03-03T08:31:02.452-05:00As to the placement of the Creed and the Sermon, d...As to the placement of the Creed and the Sermon, during my VTS 1979 education, I was taught that having the creed after the sermon permitted the congregation to compare the contents of the sermon with the declarations of the creed. Thereby no matter how heretical or gospel denying the sermon might be, by reciting the creed directly afterward the congregation is reminded of the Truth before proceeding to the "Holy Communion". Of course, one could argue that the creed said before the sermon should remind a priest of his duty to preach the Gospel. <br /><br />I am honored to be confused with Fr John, let me be known as Fr John3+CanonJohn3+ https://www.blogger.com/profile/03319620841546777233noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-10968776910156143262010-03-03T08:23:22.785-05:002010-03-03T08:23:22.785-05:00KLW wrote:
"...But I am puzzled over why Sea...KLW wrote:<br /><br />"...But I am puzzled over why Sean would bring this up, considering his anxiety to join a Church which dumped the Mass 30 years ago in favor of the Novus Ordo, a rite far more Protestant than any edition of the Book of Common Prayer..."<br /><br /><br /><br />First where do you get "anxiety?" To say we stand ready to be among the first who enter the Ordinariate is true - but no anxiety about it, as that term is commonly understood to mean. Our Blessed Lord bade us not to be anxious about anything, and certainly not about becoming a fully integrated part of The Church He founded, and promised the Gates of Hell will not prevail against.<br /><br />You obviously don't know a thing about our parish. We have no interest in the NO per se, and won't be seeing it used.<br /><br />Two Mass Liturgies are already approved in advance, and other liturgies may be used after approval.<br /><br />While the NO is one of the two, the Extra-Ordinary Form (Yes, gasp, in LATIN) is the second most used Mass in our parish. In fact, at 9am CST this morning, like every Wednesday morning, the Low Mass will begin:<br /><br />P: In nomine Patris, (+) et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. <br /><br />P: Introibo ad altare Dei. <br /><br />S: Ad deum qui laetificat Juventutem meam. ... <br /><br /><br />You nay sayers can speculate all you want, but we will have a Missal to use, very similar to that we are accustomed to. If we were going to be required to use only the BCP and nothing more, that would be more of a problem than the NO, not that the New Order of the Mass would be our first choice, but it does not include as much ambigious language that can be interpreted in a manner to please both Catholics and Protestants. Ambigious language does no one a favor, unless you believe in the failed concept of the "big tent" having merit.<br /><br />Besides the whole concept places an importance on the expression of the Liturgy we bring to the family.<br /><br />SWRSean W. Reedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02782194974794706695noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-74328097052883676872010-03-03T07:39:36.167-05:002010-03-03T07:39:36.167-05:00Indeed, anyone with an ounce of loyalty to Anglica...<i>Indeed, anyone with an ounce of loyalty to Anglican patrimony and a dash of gumption, who naturally and understandably wants worship to excel the naked Prayer Book when practicable, does not now, and never has, needed recourse to the Romish Missals and Ritual Notes.</i><br /><br />Death, the Sarum Use to which you had referred earlier in this post was a Roman Rite, and England was, even at its most Anglo-Saxon, a Roman Church. The Church came to Britannia during the Roman Empire with St. Alban. Spread to Ireland (meaning that the much vaunted "Celtic Church" as separate from and united against the Roman Church on the continent is a myth) and when England was largely re-paganized Ireland sent missionaries back to England and they were followed shortly by the Gregorian mission. No matter which way you turn, or how you try to spin it, the English Church has always been, and will always be, a roman church. It is inescapable. Even Lutheranism and Calvinism cannot escape their roman origins, even if they reject Romanism.<br /><br />This doesn't mean one needs to be a slavish copycat of all things Roman, but to write off everything Roman as being foreign and offensive to Anglicanism is not sound ecclesialogy, theology, and least of all history. I would say that to attempt a 100% divorce from Rome and everything "Romish" takes gumption and bespeaks a lack of loyalty to Anglican patrimony.RC Colanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-85557750856037947442010-03-03T07:06:44.101-05:002010-03-03T07:06:44.101-05:00AFS1970,
Several months ago we had a heated debat...AFS1970,<br /><br />Several months ago we had a heated debate about education standards in the Continuum. It is, indeed, a problem.<br /><br />The Diocese of the South an extremely challenging Bibliography with which a postulant may Read for Orders. It is so challenging that it would probably be easier to do a degree program. I cannot vouch for other dioceses' or other continuing church's standards.<br /><br />There are a few reliable RC distance MA programs in Theology, and Christendom College has a summer program that is convenient for men who are teachers or professors to study theology.<br /><br />Some protestant schools may offer reliable distance degrees also, but I have not had as much luck tracking those down. So far I have found all fundamentalist schools. Since there are probably a couple hundred more schools out there, I'll keep looking.<br /><br />Nashotah House has an interesting program in which you go to Nashotah for a week and finish the course on-line. MA in Ministry can be completed in 2 years.<br /><br />The problem is that by demanding a certain standard would, at this point, serve to alienate. In some cases that might actually be a good thing (ha ha ha) but I'm sure there are good priests out there who have not had formal theological training (in the sense of a brick-and-mortar seminary) and yet are serving the needs of their flock well.RC Colanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-59029499567038690522010-03-03T04:48:17.033-05:002010-03-03T04:48:17.033-05:00It is a shame that the debate herein has strayed a...It is a shame that the debate herein has strayed a little from what Bishop Peter has urged the continuing Anglicans in the US - and the world beyond the United States of America, because the Church is present on every continent which is the issue of divisions within the continuum.<br /><br />I do not subscribe to the view that we need to wait for cantankerous prelates to leave their body and head for their heavenly reward before something is done about this.<br /><br />We have Canterbury Anglicans sneering at our ecclesiastical jurisdictions naming some as vagante sects. <br /><br />What I believe is needed is unity - one Council of Bishops, one college of priests and deacons and one Primate or Metropolitan of the Anglican Catholic continuum throughout the world. And no, I do not mean an Anglican Pope either. If one looks at the eastern Churches we see collegiality, we see patriarchs or presiding bishops as first among equals, perhaps more honored in dignity, as much by the antiquity of their see as anything else.<br /><br />To that end I pray that the TAC move to convert to the Roman Church will hurry up and happen, because their Anglicanism lacks the self-confidence, the servanthood and the mission that remains the vision of Anglicans who remain committed to orthodoxy, to the faith of the fathers of the English Church.Deacon Down Underhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14903366446394957630noreply@blogger.com