tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post7766360792598858645..comments2024-03-24T15:19:06.377-04:00Comments on The Continuum: Ecumenically incorrect charityFr. Robert Harthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05892141425033196616noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-17719374861631025672008-10-11T01:52:00.000-04:002008-10-11T01:52:00.000-04:00Ampney referred to the prospect of "mutual validat...Ampney referred to the prospect of "mutual validation of orders" between the Roman Catholics and (presumably the Continuing) Anglicans.<BR/><BR/>Such a prospect is not likely to meet with much enthusiasm among Continuing Anglicans, for whom it bears all the red flags of vagantism.<BR/><BR/>Whenever we hear terms such as "validation", "sharing lines of succession" and the like, we tend to run as fast as possible in the other direction.<BR/><BR/>On the other hand, I'm sure we would be disposed charitably to accept the Pope's expression of repentence for the Roman Church's going into schism from the Church of England in 1570 and to absolve it from its subsequent irregularity in the matter of its orders.... <BR/><BR/>John A. Hollister+John A. Hollisterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01325615323834517909noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-36528866789233738212008-10-09T23:12:00.000-04:002008-10-09T23:12:00.000-04:00Sandra McColl wrote: I prefer Rabeprazole. H...Sandra McColl wrote:<BR/><BR/> <I>I prefer Rabeprazole.</I><BR/><BR/> Hey, if one Rabeprazole a day keeps the Doc away...(I mean Doc Carey, who pushed women's "ordination" on the C of E), or even visions of him...<BR/><BR/> Ampney wrote:<BR/><BR/> <I>The fact that other Catholic Christians view Anglican orders as invalid should be of no minor concern to Anglicans.</I><BR/><BR/> Let's face one important fact in all this: If not for women's "ordination" the 1896 Bull on Anglican Orders would have been rescinded by Pope Paul VI in 1976. That is as certain as the fact the sun rose yesterday morning. The question is, why should anything stop them from recognizing our orders, that is Continuing Anglican orders? We have no part in W "O".Fr. Robert Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05892141425033196616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-20553311751562248202008-10-09T21:26:00.000-04:002008-10-09T21:26:00.000-04:00For me, this story illustrates the urgent need for...For me, this story illustrates the urgent need for unity between Roman Catholicism and Catholic Anglicanism. Given that the communions disagree on the validity of Anglican orders, the important issue is not which position is right and which wrong, but what can be done so that these conflicting views are reconciled.<BR/><BR/>The fact that other Catholic Christians view Anglican orders as invalid should be of no minor concern to Anglicans. Insisting that the Roman Catholic Church is merely wrong, and waiting for the Pope to change church teaching accomplishes nothing. I am confident that such a mutual validation of orders can be accomplished in a way that does not force Anglicans to admit their orders are not valid or force the Holy See to accept that they are in their current state. Clearly there is a problem with the way things are, and it is imperative to the universal church that it be rectified.<BR/><BR/>A member of the Traditional Anglican Communion, I support the efforts of the TAC to be corporately united to the Roman Catholic Church, and I patiently wait and daily pray for that day.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-87211454446377760622008-10-09T18:29:00.000-04:002008-10-09T18:29:00.000-04:00Sirach 31:20 Sound sleep cometh of moderate eating...Sirach 31:<BR/><BR/>20 Sound sleep cometh of moderate eating: he riseth early, and his wits are with him: but the pain of watching, and choler, and pangs of the belly, are with an unsatiable man. <BR/><BR/>21 And if thou hast been forced to eat, arise, go forth, vomit, and thou shalt have rest.<BR/><BR/>I prefer Rabeprazole.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-58382153780291311242008-10-09T17:23:00.000-04:002008-10-09T17:23:00.000-04:00Father!You should be ashamed of yourself!I LOVE IT...Father!<BR/>You should be ashamed of yourself!<BR/>I LOVE IT1<BR/><BR/>edpoetreaderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11613032927883843078noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-44369313437271877062008-10-09T16:10:00.000-04:002008-10-09T16:10:00.000-04:00I don't know why Carey popped into my head.Scary i...<I>I don't know why Carey popped into my head.</I><BR/><BR/>Scary images might be caused by indigestion. In the words of Ebenezer Scrooge, "an undigested piece of beef, or part of an underdone potato." It usually takes a sausage pizza, or forgetting my Prylosec, to make Carey pop into my head.<BR/><BR/>For some reason I do think of him when I am driving behind a truck that is carrying a horse.Fr. Robert Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05892141425033196616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-57562339786780360602008-10-08T23:21:00.000-04:002008-10-08T23:21:00.000-04:00I meant Graham...I don't know why Carey popped int...I meant Graham...I don't know why Carey popped into my head.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-20317000059429052212008-10-08T20:30:00.000-04:002008-10-08T20:30:00.000-04:00Fr. D.I am sorry to inform you that you are simply...Fr. D.<BR/><BR/>I am sorry to inform you that you are simply mistaken. He was conditionally ordained. However, that in itself is rather significant from a RC perspective.Fr. Robert Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05892141425033196616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-81848357093577839652008-10-08T17:11:00.000-04:002008-10-08T17:11:00.000-04:00And Bishop Graham Leonard WAS NOT CONDITIONALLY RE...And Bishop Graham Leonard WAS NOT CONDITIONALLY REORDAINED! He was received in his orders on the basis of his having Old Catholic orders (same as PNC) per the 1930 Bonn Agreement. Amusing whereas most Anglicans also have them. Leonard+ was received in priest orders, not in Episcopal Orders.<BR/>Fr. D.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-31634332358778265152008-10-08T16:13:00.000-04:002008-10-08T16:13:00.000-04:00Diane:That was Bishop Graham Leonard, who had been...Diane:<BR/><BR/>That was Bishop Graham Leonard, who had been Bishop of London.Fr. Robert Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05892141425033196616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-60391785193535978992008-10-08T15:43:00.000-04:002008-10-08T15:43:00.000-04:00At the very least... if they don't believe the sac...At the very least... if they don't believe the sacraments to be valid, you did what you could, and they can at the very least see Christian Charity in the act...Carloshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03670360109098788884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-87220004297449403372008-10-08T14:32:00.000-04:002008-10-08T14:32:00.000-04:00My niece (a non-practicing Roman) was dying of cer...My niece (a non-practicing Roman) was dying of cervical cancer. She was in a hospice setting. My sister (her mother) told me that the niece was being very angry and bitchy. I went to see her, administered the Sacrament of Extreme Unction and told her good-bye. My sister reported that the niece’s total attitude had changed and that she died a few days later in peace. I have wondered since if I had done right.Fr William Bauerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09807139722072520023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-2597718027946237582008-10-08T13:05:00.000-04:002008-10-08T13:05:00.000-04:00I would have taken the 'sacrament' knowing that th...I would have taken the 'sacrament' knowing that there was a chance that the Anglican priest had valid orders. I believe that once the ordinal was fixed to include more reference to the sacrificial priesthood and certain bishops went in search of valid apostolic succession, there are some strains of apostolic succession and valid orders within Anglicanism (I'm sure ya'll know that Bishop Carey of London was reordained conditionally when he converted to Catholicism). If I were in a life or death situation, I would ask for a Catholic priest first and if one couldn't be located timely, would ask for an ordthodox priest. In the end, if only an Anglican priest were present, I would accept last rites from him...all the while praying to God that I am doing the right thing and asking for forgiveness of my sins and to be taken up into Heaven. If I survived, I would most certainly be grateful for the Anglican priest's desire to attend to me. My kids go to an Episcopalian school and my daughter was taken my ambulance from the school to the ER (painful injury,but not critical)....the priest gathered people to pray for her as she was driven off...I thanked him, knowing that he wants to help, was concerned for the care and well being of my daughter and was offering up prayers asking for God to assist. You just can't blame a person for that!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-39335320984480030022008-10-08T12:29:00.000-04:002008-10-08T12:29:00.000-04:00A moving and profitable post as always, Father. I ...A moving and profitable post as always, Father. <BR/><BR/>I feel like sometimes our divisions as Christians are luxuries-we can afford them at times when the church is not under direct persectution. I am always moved by stories about the charitable ecumenicism of such places as communist prisons, concentration camps, or Chrisitans under Islamic rule. We dont have the luxury of our in-house quibbles when we are all in distress together. While a hospital is not a concentration camp, there is the same immediacy in that one must throw certain luxuries aside. I hope if life ever finds me in such circumstances as that woman, an RC ACC or EO priest would do the same for me.The Midland Agrarianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17214111067042466363noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-90473995283558423522008-10-08T12:27:00.000-04:002008-10-08T12:27:00.000-04:00I have never encountered a situation quite this dr...I have never encountered a situation quite this dramatic. But I cannot count the times I have been intercepted in a hospital corridor by someone who saw my Anglican collar and said, "Father, would you come and say a prayer with my husband/dad/family member."<BR/><BR/>I always make it very clear that I am not a priest of the papal obedience but will be happy to come and pray. RC's seem grateful for pastoral care from almost any source. Their own padres, bless them, are drastically overworked, with too many parishioners to look after with the daily visits our people have come to expect. But I am very scrupulous not to reprsent myself as an RC priest. They have never rejected me and are touching in their gratitude--more grateful sometimes than our own people are.<BR/>LKWAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-85322095328863146752008-10-08T08:59:00.000-04:002008-10-08T08:59:00.000-04:00Good work, Father!While being subject to those ove...Good work, Father!<BR/><BR/>While being subject to those over us, even if they be less than perfect, is a Biblical imperative, the fact remains that barriers between Christians are, in the final analysis, man-made barriers and cannot be allowed to stand in such dire circumstances.<BR/><BR/>Furthermore, even if Rome were correct as to the invalidity of "our" sacraments (a proposition I obviously reject, but ...), even a false sacrament, received in good faith, is of deep spiritual benefit to the recipient. I would hope that woman's priest would have thus assured her.<BR/><BR/>edpoetreaderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11613032927883843078noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-64462811037790634182008-10-08T04:08:00.000-04:002008-10-08T04:08:00.000-04:00Things usually change when confronting life and de...Things usually change when confronting life and death issues face to face. Man made barriers, of necessity, often become meaningless. Drowning men are not concerned who it is that throws them a life line. <BR/>You were there at that moment as God's agent and you had no choice.<BR/>My experiences in similar situations are firstly to present a clear identity of who I am. Not once has there been any hesitation in receiving the Sacraments. In one case after being the first person to arrive after a fatal auto accident I administered last rites to a young woman, a college student, who died in my arms. She was a Roman Catholic and I notified her parish priest as soon as was possible. Both her family and her priest were grateful.<BR/>These are tragic examples of: "the great dangers we are in by our unhappy divisions".<BR/>FWIW,<BR/>Joseph DeHart, ACC priestAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com