tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post6510825850463893243..comments2024-03-24T15:19:06.377-04:00Comments on The Continuum: What is over? you may askFr. Robert Harthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05892141425033196616noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-3690440107083332102012-03-25T22:14:46.238-04:002012-03-25T22:14:46.238-04:00Hello: Let me see if I get this. The RCC has iss...Hello: Let me see if I get this. The RCC has issued an offer to certain anglicans to become a part of an ordinariate the specifics of which are not in writing as to certain spcifics such a real property. While I am not a caonon laywer, I am an attorney with many years or contract drafting and negotiatng. Until all the particulars are in writing and signed by the partes nothing is for sure.Anonymoushttp://annoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-44443494384511855832011-05-24T06:39:26.099-04:002011-05-24T06:39:26.099-04:00By the way, I must now get rid of this title SMM b...By the way, I must now get rid of this title SMM behind my name. The Anglican Catholic Society of Saint Michael made up by TAC and ACC/OP clergy and a few others, until the AC was announced and everyone went into the state of attack. Fr.Nalls was wise to resign from the list,I should be doing this to, if the list still hangs in the system. <br />Father Ed Bakker OPRFrEdBakkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04731831225107760530noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-14216947765328321012011-05-24T06:34:49.756-04:002011-05-24T06:34:49.756-04:00Hello Sean,
You and I had a number of disussions ...Hello Sean, <br />You and I had a number of disussions on the Ordinariate. What really surprises me , that you make statements that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true Church, why is it then that you cannot become a Roman Catholic straight away. As a forme TAC Priest, I could never ever endorse the catachism of the RC Church, let alone support the dogm that Salvation is only obtained through the Roman Catholic Church.The title of Father Hart's blog was " What is over? you may ask". The answer is this part of the world - down under - will most likely be that Hepworth retires from the scene ( Soon Lord! ) No Australian or New Zealand Anglican will join the ordinarite and the few remaining TAC'ers will be left in the learch.In Australia very few TAC Priest have applied to join the ordinariate , hoping it will be in place by Pentecost, they are still waiting, waiting. <br />I saw the AC coming, did not like it and resigned. Bp.Chislett tried to talk me out of it and labelled me too hasty and lo and behold a few weeks after I left he resigned himsef. Father Hart has done an excellent job for many months making it clear and clear that we are NOT talking about Unity, but absorption by Rome. He must feel sometimes like knocking a few gullible Clergy and laypeople with their heads against the well. Why dont you open your eyes Sean and see things as they really are.<br />Father Ed Bakker OPR<br />HCC-WR Missionary Diocese of NZ and Australia.FrEdBakkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04731831225107760530noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-91988587870738257902011-05-18T21:41:56.078-04:002011-05-18T21:41:56.078-04:00A couple more letters have been posted at Virtue O...A couple more letters have been posted at Virtue Online.<br /><br />From Abp. Hepworth: http://www.virtueonline.org/portal/modules/news/article.php?storyid=14381<br /><br />Commentary from Rev. Dr. David Virtue:<br />http://www.virtueonline.org/portal/modules/news/article.php?storyid=14382Confessornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-22060981794561662062011-05-18T02:16:15.620-04:002011-05-18T02:16:15.620-04:00So the RCC canonical norms are that property is ow...So the RCC canonical norms are that property is owned by the diocese. Where as in any continuing church the normal situation is that it is up to the parish to own or rent or otherwise provide for property. It would seem that these two standpoints are at odds with each other.<br /><br />The best one can hope for in the ordinariate, is that parish control might not be taken away, under a USCCB pilot program that has not even started yet. However those that assert this hope, will also be quick to tell you that the USCCB will have no authority over the ordinariate, so how can they extend their pilot program to it?<br /><br />A pilot program is just that, something small that is being tried out. Is it possible that this program will be a success and eventually extend throughout all of the RCC? Sure, about as possible as anything, but with no timeline, will this be in time to save parish property in any soon to be formed ordinariate? I doubt it. <br /><br />I am glad someone else brought up that this pilot programs is just a way to insulate diocesan property from certain lawsuits. I am no lawyer but I have can't see this working all that well except for new lawsuits and frankly I think most that were going to sue already have. That is a mixed blessing, in that without more lawsuits, it will be hard to judge the success of the pilot program at all. If no one seeks to take the property, how do we know if a move to safeguard it really worked?<br /><br />Sadly for them, I think that such matters will already be decided in the ordinariate before any pilot program will be able to effect it. Oddly enough this could have the eventual effect of the ordinariate deeding back to the parish property that it originally owned and deeded to the ordinariate. What a tangled web, that would be.AFS1970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-67410825974538208772011-05-17T22:09:26.202-04:002011-05-17T22:09:26.202-04:00SWR:
Here is what Anglicanorum Coetibus says:
&q...SWR:<br /><br />Here is what Anglicanorum Coetibus says:<br /><br />"This power is to be exercised jointly with that of the local Diocesan Bishop, in those cases provided for in the Complementary Norms."<br /><br />and<br /><br />"XII. For judicial cases, the competent tribunal is that of the Diocese in which one of the parties is domiciled, unless the Ordinariate has constituted its own tribunal, in which case the tribunal of second instance is the one designated by the Ordinariate and approved by the Holy See. In both cases, the different titles of competence established by the Code of Canon Law are to be taken into account."<br /><br />Furthermore, constant references are footnoted, many of which are in a form beginning with "cann." after <i>"CIC."</i><br /><br />This myth of ordianriates entirely free from the normal Canon Law is just silly, as is the notion of total independence from a diocese. The entire constitution derives its authority from previous Vatican documents and from the Canon Law of the RCC. <br /><br />And, what you have objected to you have yet to refute (are you related to Mr. Bulver?). Parishes currently enjoying their own control of property would lose it. Does it matter that they would lose it to a system where the ordinariate's power is exercised jointly with that of the diocesan bishop? Parish control will still be lost. You have simply confirmed that, apparently because you assume that ordinariate control and parish control would amount to the same thing, and that joint authority (or "power") with that of the diocesan bishop means nothing at all, that it is all just words on paper that you can afford to ignore.<br /><br />It seems we are down to nothing at this point but <i>your</i> personal guarantee, and that in stark contrast to the actual provisions of the constitution.Fr. Robert Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05892141425033196616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-9278754363798677532011-05-17T21:20:01.132-04:002011-05-17T21:20:01.132-04:00Fr. Hart -
It is a plain fact that there is NO Ca...Fr. Hart -<br /><br />It is a plain fact that there is NO Canon Law regulation protery in an Ordinariate - Period.<br /><br />Additionally, the pilot program here is the US is transferring property from the pilot RC Diocese to a parish corporation who will own the property.<br /><br />SWRSean W. Reedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07413612375936682682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-53347167436452094322011-05-17T21:18:41.101-04:002011-05-17T21:18:41.101-04:00It is amusing to observe which questions Mr JMJ ig...It is amusing to observe which questions Mr JMJ ignores and those which he comes back to. Will a TAC parish which joins the Ordinariate have the same title to real estate which it enjoyed while under the Affirmation of St Louis and trhe Canon Law of the ACA? MrJMJ seems to think so, or at least that "The property ownership issue will be determined by each Ordinariate." At least he tacitly admits that, in his view, the matter is yet to be decided.<br /><br />I would suggest to Mr JMJ that he read, once again, that famous document, Anglicanorum Coetibus. While the question is not directly dealt with there, he should count the number of times this document uses the phrase "according to the norms of Canon Law" or the equivalent. It is pracrrically an antiphon or leitmotiv occurring in almsot every paragraph.<br /><br />While the Ordinariates, should they ever materialize, will possess some sort of trans-jurisdictional jurisdiction, they will be under the very same body of Canon Law. We all know what is the case in American RC Churches. It is only logical to assume the same will be true in the Ordinariate. Mr JMJ is either indulging in wishful thinking or else he is attempting to mislead.Fr. Wellshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00842080747345893229noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-34888967818312999002011-05-17T21:15:48.651-04:002011-05-17T21:15:48.651-04:00SWR:
I asked you to justify your assertion from A...SWR:<br /><br />I asked you to justify your assertion from Anglicanorum Coetibus, not from someone's personal guarantee. You have answered, in effect, with someone's personal guarantee. <br /><br />Everyone knows that RCC property is under diocesan control. To what extent that will be worked out in ordinariates is yet to be seen. Furthermore, I said that parishes that hand over property will lose all control of the same, and all you answer with is that they lose it to the ordinariate rather than the diocese. How, then, is that a refutation of what I said? Either way, they surrender their property to someone else's control; in this case, within an unknown structure yet to be figured out. <br /><br />As for Canon Lawyers, we have our own expert. You really ought to look at the archives before asking us to say something. Most likely, you will find, <a href="http://anglicancontinuum.blogspot.com/2010/02/on-property-and-mission.html" rel="nofollow">we have done so already.</a>Fr. Robert Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05892141425033196616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-15945024824059893362011-05-17T19:12:20.950-04:002011-05-17T19:12:20.950-04:00J.M.J.
Fr. Hart there is no canon law to back up ...J.M.J.<br /><br />Fr. Hart there is no canon law to back up your assertion concerning property in the Ordinariate.<br /><br />It will be decided by each Ordinariate. It is not determined by either canon law or Anglicanorum Coetibus.<br /><br />In fact, we discussed the very point in our meeting a couple of weeks ago with the representative of the local Archdiocese, a distinguished Canon Lawyer, trained in Rome, concerning the property issue.<br /><br />It came up as we discussed how the litigation from TEC against our parish is of zero bearing on admission to, and participation in, the Ordinariate. There is also no requirement that a parish own any property. They may lease their worship space.<br /><br />this is not a weekend warrior canon-law opinion, but the considered opinion of one trained as a RC canon lawyer in Rome, and who has done quite a bit of research on applicable canon law and how property issues will be handled in the Ordinariate.<br /><br />It is no longer a given in a regular RC Diocese that parishes will not own property, as is clear from the pilot program starting in the US.<br /><br />You are making an assertion you can not back up. You are the one making the claim "I have the full weight of RC Canon Law to back up my words."<br /><br />Please provide the cication from the Code of Canon Law that provides the "full weight of RC Canon Law" to back up your words.<br /><br />The plain fact is that until each Ordinariate is canonically erected, and then decides how property will be handled, it is undetermined.<br /><br />SWRSean W. Reedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07413612375936682682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-10887770430476113762011-05-17T19:02:19.654-04:002011-05-17T19:02:19.654-04:00SWR:
No, you support your confident assertion, an...SWR:<br /><br />No, you support your confident assertion, and do so from Anglicanourm Coetibus, not from someone's personal guarantee. For, I have the full weight of RC Canon Law to back up my words.Fr. Robert Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05892141425033196616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-54671651690607369172011-05-17T17:23:42.436-04:002011-05-17T17:23:42.436-04:00J.M.J.
Father Hart wrote:
"...Those who own...J.M.J.<br /><br />Father Hart wrote:<br /><br />"...Those who own parish real estate will own it no longer, and that means they will completely lose all control of it..."<br /><br />Please support your allegation. I ask because I know you can't.<br /><br />You can speculate. That is all you can do.<br /><br />The property ownership issue will be determined by each Ordinariate. <br /><br /><br />SWRSean W. Reedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07413612375936682682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-70606839175328460502011-05-17T17:12:49.976-04:002011-05-17T17:12:49.976-04:00It has been my observation that when internet warr...It has been my observation that when internet warriors run out of rational arguments and find the facts to support the other side, they immediately start whining about the "tone" of the opposition. "Vitriol" is a euphemism for "My case is hopeless." Funny that Mr JMJ have never complained about the "tone" of Abp Hepworth's angry broadside. Maybe Australian vitriol is okay with him.<br />Mr JMJ could perhaps profit from reading the latter part of Luke 11. But his attempt to join the tone police will get nowhere. I recall when he described me as "clueless" in another forum.Fr. Wellshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00842080747345893229noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-67371466384564704942011-05-17T16:53:29.526-04:002011-05-17T16:53:29.526-04:00SWR asked Fr. Wells: "Do you think the genera...SWR asked Fr. Wells: <i>"Do you think the general tone of your replies reflects Christ in your example and actions?"</i><br /><br />And, have you ever read about what Jesus did to the tables of the money changers? It seems that Jesus was not being very Christ-like, as some define that term.Fr. Robert Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05892141425033196616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-83755930687487757642011-05-17T16:51:40.510-04:002011-05-17T16:51:40.510-04:00CT:
It appears that you have not read the things ...CT:<br /><br />It appears that you have not read the things written here since Sept. '09, or you have forgotten anything you did read. We have always acknowledged that <i>Anglicanorum Coetibus</i> is an extension of the Pastoral Provisions beyond North America, and that it removes the power of local bishops to stand in the way. You seem to be without any appreciation of that fact. But, you seem also to be unaware that the invitation to <i>groups</i> of Anglicans is not new, but was always part of the Pastoral Provisions in the so-called Anglican Use.<br /><br />As for matters of property and liturgy: The Romeward roaming former Anglicans need to understand one and only one point about property: Those who own parish real estate will own it no longer, and that means they will completely lose all control of it. Anyone who promises or guarantees that their interests will be protected may as well promise everyone a long life; for it boils down to nothing but well meaning good wishes at best. The personal sincerity of RC PR men is not under attack from us; but neither would their sincerity give them the power to make <i>genuine</i> guarantees. <br /><br />As for liturgy, who knows what will happen? However, to judge from what has been done before, we have reason to be less than optimistic. The existing "Anglican Use" is downright insulting to those of us who prize our Prayer Book tradition.<br /><br />On theological principle, I find it utterly appalling that Rome found it necessary to remove the following words from their so-called Anglican Use:<br /><br />"Almighty God, our heavenly Father, who of thy tender mercy didst give thine only Son Jesus Christ to suffer death upon the Cross for our redemption; who made there (by his one oblation of himself once offered) a full, perfect, and sufficient sacrifice, oblation, and satisfaction, for the sins of the whole world"<br /><br />Apparently, for all their claims to "cherish" a thing called "Anglican Patrimony," up to now the Church of Rome has been unwilling to permit a simple, direct and thoroughly orthodox statement of Christ's once for all atoning sacrifice of Himself on the cross. Why? Are they still clinging to the error of "the sacrifices of masses" -with all the double plural suggests? I can think of no other reason for removing those perfectly good words.<br /><br />Maybe they will come up with a better liturgy. I won't predict that they will not; but, neither will I hold my breath until they do.<br /><br />No, I think we have been quite accurate about the degree of generosity involved.Fr. Robert Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05892141425033196616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-23061616160187916522011-05-17T16:19:53.397-04:002011-05-17T16:19:53.397-04:00CT
Where are you getting "Since the ordinar...CT <br /><br />Where are you getting "Since the ordinary will be one of the former Anglican clergy who has joined the Ordinariate,"? All I can find is: <br /><br />IV. A Personal Ordinariate is entrusted to the pastoral care of an Ordinary appointed by the Roman Pontiff.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-8086779500841177352011-05-17T15:51:26.720-04:002011-05-17T15:51:26.720-04:00Sorry, CT, but you've set up a completely fals...Sorry, CT, but you've set up a completely false dichotomy. No one will get into an Ordinariate without personal conversion into the Roman Catholic faith, including swallowing as dogmas papal infallibility, the existence of purgatory, and the immaculate conception and bodily assumption of Mary - and repudiation of much that they've known as Anglicans, e.g. the unqualified doctrine of justification by faith, the validity of every eucharist, confirmation, and ordination, and the branch theory of catholicism. As Archbishop Haverland has said, Anglicanorum Coetibus offers nothing new theologically. It seems only to appeal to individuals without clear and coherent theological convictions and/or to aesthetes who idolatrously put the language and form of liturgy above doctrine. <br /><br />I personally have no problem - although I obviously disagree - with individuals who convert to Roman Catholicism because they have sincerely come to believe in its dogmas - but they don't need Anglicanorum Coetibus for that. I have personally a big problem with individuals who try, in consequence of their own delusion or through deliberate deception, to sell Anglicanorum Coetibus as offering a way to be both Anglican and Roman Catholic and who, in the process, ruthlessly and viciously hijack, divide and destroy churches that were founded and built by far better men than they, who actually, unlike them, really believed in the truth of classical Anglicanism.Colin Chattannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-91982018348927450322011-05-17T13:43:32.416-04:002011-05-17T13:43:32.416-04:00Mr JMJ imposes on our credulity with his request t...Mr JMJ imposes on our credulity with his request that we believe there is still life in the Ordinariate proposal. The can is kicked down the street again, with some momentous announcement about to come<br />"this fall."<br /><br />To be sure, meetings and pronouncements will probably drag on for years. ARCIC produced some interesting theological essays but no concrete results. Theoretically, it is still alive. We can recall COCU, which originated in 1963 but has yet to bear any fruit. For all I know, ecclesiastical bureaucrats still meet periodically.<br /><br />Rather than promising some grandiose statment at some unspecified moment in the future, perhaps JMJ would address the question Rome is looking at, and that is the poverty of numbers of the Ordinariate group. <br /><br />We recall how Arnold Harris Mathew deceived the Old Catholic Archbishop of Utrecht about some fictitious number of Englishmen ready to become Old Catholics. The Archbishop quickly discovered that he had been duped. Rome will not be amused by the misrepresentations from Wannabe RC's.Fr. Wellshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00842080747345893229noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-48593868843765501772011-05-17T13:30:34.097-04:002011-05-17T13:30:34.097-04:00Mr JMJ asks:
"Do you think the general tone ...Mr JMJ asks:<br /><br />"Do you think the general tone of your replies reflects Christ in your example and actions?"<br /><br />Do you have a mirror in your home, Mr JMJ?Fr. Wellshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00842080747345893229noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-91574155156376141012011-05-17T12:24:18.987-04:002011-05-17T12:24:18.987-04:00Well, it looks like Abp. Hepworth has expressed re...Well, it looks like Abp. Hepworth has expressed regret for at least the tone and the unplanned publication of his letter to Bp. Elliott, has said he appreciates Abp. Collins clarification, and has asked for the mentor priest visits in Canada to resume. So I guess it ain't over till it's over? <br /><br />As I have said elsewhere, I don't think that either Abp. Hepworth or Frs. Hart and Wells have accurately conveyed the meaning of <i>Anglicanorum Coetibus</i>. It is neither an offer for full corporate reunion as a <i>sui juris</i> church, nor merely a warmed over invitation to individual conversion with the possibility of the Pastoral provision to allow for married clergy. It is an offer extended to *groups* of Anglicans (first and foremost parish or local groups, not diocesan or provincial ecclesial structures) with their clergy to become part of a new Ordinariate which would have all the powers of a diocese, and which would be governed by former Anglicans relating directly to the Holy See. <br /><br />Property issues presumably will be settled within the Ordinariate, which could mean that the Ordinariate ends up owning the property directly, or it could be left in the hands of the parish group. Since the ordinary will be one of the former Anglican clergy who has joined the Ordinariate, operating in conjunction with a priests council of fellow convert clergy, one presumes that property issues will be handled sensitively. This will not be a case of TAC parishes being expected to sign their property over to the local diocesan.<br /><br />Similarly, the liturgy will likely be much improved from the Book of Divine Worship. In addition to the Ordinary and Extraordinary Form of the Roman rite liturgy, and the ability to use the BDW on an interim basis, it seems that there is likely to be a revised Anglican Use liturgy approved drawing on the Prayer Book and English Missal traditions. Msgr. Andrew Burnham is apparently chairing the work on this in the UK, and the TAC has also submitted a proposed liturgy for approval to Rome. I suspect problems with the existing BDW, like the clunky Novus Ordo English offertory and the 1979 Prayer Book language, will be rectified in the new liturgical rite or rites.<br /><br />The Ordinariates will have much more authority than mere Anglican Use parishes - the ability to incardinate priests or erect seminaries or religious institutes, the ability to regulate the liturgy within the ordinariate, etc. And the Ordinariates will relate directly to the Holy See, so will not be governed by the local episcopal conference. We have already seen in the UK that the CDF has been quite willing to push back on the local bishops to accommodate the Ordinariate - pushing back on the proposed one year minimum time for the ordination of convert clergy, for instance.<br /><br />This may not be the creation of a separate ritual church, as some in the TAC may have hoped for, but nor is it merely individual conversion and throwing yourself at the tender mercies of the local bishop or episcopal conference. It is not becoming of Fr. Hart and others who would have had no interest in the Ordinariate anyway for deeply held theological reasons to suggest that the offer is less generous than it actually is.CTnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-31607337680469383382011-05-17T11:43:32.224-04:002011-05-17T11:43:32.224-04:00Fr Hart, I think Robert Ian Williams meant to say...Fr Hart, I think Robert Ian Williams meant to say,<br />"out of 7,300 parishes in TEC..."<br /> but he accidently hit the shift key.Fr Tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16482361252214272856noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-57963296805034986112011-05-17T11:41:32.170-04:002011-05-17T11:41:32.170-04:00Robert Ian Williams sent this clarification:
It s...<b>Robert Ian Williams</b> sent this clarification:<br /><br />It should read 7,300. Sorry.<br /> <br />As for the Ordinariate in England and Wales...it has no representation in Wales, 20 people in Scotland and about 880 in England. Virtually no representation in the North of England. Some of these are former Catholics. Looking at the photographs they are mainly middle aged and older. There about 61 clergy..which means one cleric for every 15 laity.<br /> <br />The Church of England has 27, 000,000 baptized members, of whom 1 milllion are regular communicants. So the percentage is 0.01 per cent of Anglicans.<br /> <br />There are 26,000 clergy listed in Crockfords for the British Isles...so the clerical percentage of convert clergy is 0. 2 per cent.Fr. Robert Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05892141425033196616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-8985807932536328842011-05-17T11:09:21.874-04:002011-05-17T11:09:21.874-04:00"...out of 7<300 parishes in TEC..."
..."...out of 7<300 parishes in TEC..."<br /><br />Now that I have posted his comments, I need someone to translate this. I suppose it means out of 300 parishes, and the 7 is a typo altogether.<br /><br />Anonymous wrote:<br /><br /><i>Seems to be doing ok here in the United Kingdom.</i><br /><br />Well, if after all these few weeks, Anonymous, a man we all trust and admire, says everything is ok, who am I to argue with that?Fr. Robert Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05892141425033196616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-62238131740625519442011-05-17T11:03:35.068-04:002011-05-17T11:03:35.068-04:00A reader named Robert Ian Williams is having some ...A reader named <b>Robert Ian Williams</b> is having some sort of trouble with the internet. He asked my to post this via email.<br /><br /> I can't get my google account to work......<br /> <br />At least your blog, allows critical comment.<br /> <br />The fact is Rome are disappointed that there are no real takers from the Anglican Communion. out of 7<300 parishes in TEC only three have signed up. In Canada out of 1,700 Anglican Church of Canada parishes there is only one. Thats 0.05 per cent.<br /> <br />Two of these parishes are embroiled in multi million property law suits. No wonder Rome are warey of the likes of Bishop Moyer.<br /> <br />Another fact is that over 90 per cent of membership of the existing Anglican Use is cradle Catholic.<br /> <br />The Ordinariate has no takers in Wales, New Zealand, Australia, South Africa..amongst Anglican communion parishes.<br /> <br />By the way TAC in the UK is a "potemkin" church with less than a hundred members.<br /> <br />Kindest regards<br /> <br />Robert ( could you publish this )Fr. Robert Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05892141425033196616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-42995245997059826132011-05-17T08:53:07.354-04:002011-05-17T08:53:07.354-04:00J.M.J.
Fr. Wells,
I don't know what your age...J.M.J.<br /><br />Fr. Wells,<br /><br />I don't know what your agenda is to keep repeating a false statement over and over that the Ordinariate is dead. We will see it here in the US by this fall.<br /><br />In the US parish information was due by Dec 31, 2010, and there has been a clear job of communication with local RC Bishops as to the fact the Ordinariates are not under their jurisdiction.<br /><br />The Cardinal Archbishop of Washington has been studious in insuring the path to the US Ordinariate is smooth, and without surprises.<br /><br />Do you think the general tone of your replies reflects Christ in your example and actions?<br /><br />SWRSean W. Reedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07413612375936682682noreply@blogger.com