tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post6347293836430359733..comments2024-03-24T15:19:06.377-04:00Comments on The Continuum: The Charismatic reality of the ChurchFr. Robert Harthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05892141425033196616noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-4740504241220913802009-04-16T17:58:00.000-04:002009-04-16T17:58:00.000-04:00I'm probably one of the few who stand categoricall...I'm probably one of the few who stand categorically against Word-Faith/Dominion theology as the Great American Christian Heresy.<br /><br />It is absolutely forbidden in my household to watch these serpents. I don't care how much "outreach", "anointing", appearance of "Spirit-filled" worship exists among these so-called Churches. The theology is fundamentally bankrupt and blasphemes the true Gospel.<br /><br />Authentic Pentecostalism, as much as I disagree with its theology, doesn't truck with this vomitous counterfeit Christianity. <br /><br />And yes, I've seen and felt the destructive effects of Word-Faith theology. Satan has no worries here.<br /><br />With that said, my heart breaks for the many true believers entangled in this dung-heap. I for a couple of years as a teen was caught up with it, until God kindly delivered me from its deception. <br /><br />Some later post I will tell you all what I really think about Word-Faith theology. ;)<br /><br />St. WormAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-9635359262157072742009-04-15T22:53:00.000-04:002009-04-15T22:53:00.000-04:00Any advance on 'solo a Spiritu Sancto'?Any advance on 'solo a Spiritu Sancto'?Sandra McCollnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-38108371504048143842009-04-15T21:58:00.000-04:002009-04-15T21:58:00.000-04:00Don't get me started on the "Word Faith", "Prosper...Don't get me started on the "Word Faith", "Prosperity" or "Name-ot-and-Claim-it" crowd. I examined them deeply in my Pentecostal days, and came to the conclusion that they were very dangerous and probably not Christian at all. What I seem to see in much of that movement is something effectively occult (quite recognizable from my previous dabbling with that aberration) clothed rather deceptively in Scriptural and Pentecostal language -- and the fruit of the movement is shown in thousands who have similar experience to your wife. I have a lot of sympathy for real Pentecostals, but none at all for those preachers, and their influence has been becoming stronger and stronger.<br /><br />ed.poetreaderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11613032927883843078noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-41353397087642416422009-04-15T19:17:00.000-04:002009-04-15T19:17:00.000-04:00My wife was part of a Word Faith Charismatic churc...My wife was part of a Word Faith Charismatic church, she is no longer a believer. Listening to Hank Hanegraafs show "The Bible Answer Man" I have heard countless stories of people like my wife who were used and tossed away by the charismatic fads only to lose her faith. The only church I have been able to get her to even be a tiny bit interested in is Anglicanism. The last time we attended St. Marks in Portland she cried during the Liturgy and remarked how heavenly the church seemed. <br /><br />I have even considered that should she one day decide she wanted to attend an Anglican parish again I would go with her. Meanwhile my daughter still cries because mommy won't go to church with us.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06569126566700113991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-47703375830606690012009-04-15T18:43:00.000-04:002009-04-15T18:43:00.000-04:00Brother Ed,
Excellent and concise conclusion. I ...Brother Ed,<br /><br />Excellent and concise conclusion. I concur whole-heartedly.<br /><br />Blessings!<br /><br />St. WormAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-31129369898568349632009-04-15T17:00:00.000-04:002009-04-15T17:00:00.000-04:00Good comments, both of you! I'm very distrustful ...Good comments, both of you! I'm very distrustful both of rigid rules that get in the Spirit's way, AND of enthusiastic movements of any sort. At all times Christians need to be seeking balance, to find the truth that lies on the middle of the "highway of holiness" -- what I take to be meant by the Anglican phrase of <I>via media</I>. Here's my take: Spiritual gifts have not ceased, but they are extraordinary workings of God's grace, NOT the norm, and must always be exercised in entire obedience to the Church, and subject to the judgment of those bearing due authority.<br /><br />edpoetreaderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11613032927883843078noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-20826333280184893042009-04-15T16:48:00.000-04:002009-04-15T16:48:00.000-04:00I would weigh in on this from a more cautionary si...I would weigh in on this from a more cautionary side (and a former Pentecostal), that we have to remember the Spirit's leading and interaction with the Church is specifically Christocentric, and much of popular charismatic theology really undermines this, though unwittingly.<br /><br />With that said, I'm no cessationist proper, but I do find great wisdom in recognizing that where there is a healthy familiarity of the Scriptures among the congregation usually do not require what often becomes a detached theology of the Spirit. Indeed, the heretical Hydra of Montanism and Pelagianism ever vex the Church, and we need to be vigilant against these.<br /><br />I for one believe in the gifts of the Spirit, and find no warrant say signs and wonders and the extraordinary gifts have completely ceased, but the general wisdom among the Fathers and implied sense of Scripture is that these signs were not meant to be normative for every age and scenario -- so whatever "Renewal" movement that comes to light I believe needs to be taken with a big fat grain of salt, in spite of how welcoming any venerable bishop of Rome might be to said movements. I do like the particular emphasis on the life of the Spirit in the ministry of Word and Sacrament -- it's theologically safe and sane.<br /><br />That's just my .02.<br /><br />St. WormAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-22441536068046735902009-04-15T11:01:00.000-04:002009-04-15T11:01:00.000-04:00What a breath of fresh air are these posts from Fr...What a breath of fresh air are these posts from Frs Kirby & Hart!<br /><br />Having been influenced by Fr John Hope (mentioned by Fr Kirby) and having been a participant in the Charismatic renewal of the late '60s & early 70's, I have longed for a church in the context of whose catholic life is experienced the evangelical proclamation of the Gospel ("why shouldn't ordinary Anglo-Catholics be able to lead people to Christ?") and the pentecostal ministry of the Spirit and his gifts.<br /><br />Many of our ecclesiological arguments (including the important ones) are like the necessary debates plumbers have when designing the pipework for a highrise apartment block. If we never actually get the water flowing through the pipes . . . . !!!<br /><br />I am greatly encouraged by the fact that Father Cantalamessa, a leader in the Roman Catholic Charismatic renewal, who in 1980 was appointed by JPII as Preacher to the Papal Household, had his remit renewed by BXVI in 2005.<br /><br />(All of which doesn't mean that the cultural trappings of American revivalism are always necessary or helpful!)<br /><br />Blessings<br /><br />+DavidAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18902745.post-16287476897685418272009-04-14T22:00:00.000-04:002009-04-14T22:00:00.000-04:00Excellent, Father. I was getting cranked up to we...Excellent, Father. I was getting cranked up to weigh in on this one, but you've said almost exactly what I would have said. Having come through Pentecostalism back to the Tradition, I can vouch for the fact that all those things, both positive and negative are precisely what one finds there. I do believe we suffer badly when we do not actively seek the direct ministration of the Holy Spirit, but also that, in doing so, geat care is to be taken that we not slip our moorings.<br /><br />In speaking of the Montanist ecstasy, or apparent possession, you could well have wi\uoted a passage I had to use often when I was a pastor, when people would claim they had to do such-and-so because the Spirit mmde them do it (rather like a mirror image of Flip Wilson, that):<br /><br />1 Corinthians 14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.<br /><br />edpoetreaderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11613032927883843078noreply@blogger.com